kanotix.com
Anything goes - Which packages can't you live without?
rich.bradshaw - 20.05.2006, 14:05 Uhr
Titel: Which packages can't you live without?
When you install, what are the first packages you install? Should these be included in future versions?
Personally I always apt-get
openoffice
nano
a certain video player
an upgrade of amaroK - if one exists!
gtk2-engines-gtk-qt (Seems to make firefox look better, as well as several other programs)
nano
firestarter
kanotix-update-gui
vmplayer
on top of all the normal packages.
How about you?
jesseman - 20.05.2006, 16:52 Uhr
Titel: RE: Which packages can
I agree on:
nano
gtk2-engines-gtk-qt
But must add:
aterm
irssi
conky
lineak
sylpheed
horo - 20.05.2006, 17:48 Uhr
Titel: RE: Which packages can
Hi,
my add-ons are synaptic, frozen-bubble, python-serial, gtk2-engines-gtk-qt and some packages from **censored** 
Ciao Martin
h2 - 20.05.2006, 18:15 Uhr
Titel: RE: Which packages can
nano, first thing I install. Nano should absolutely be included in all distros as far as I'm concerned, expecting anyone to debug any issue requiring a dip into console mode with a text editor and vi is a fantasy, great as vi probably is, it doesn't help you to look at a totally blank screen with no indication whatsoever of what your next step is. Nano is very userfriendly, small, works great, and is fairly intuitive, most options are listed under text display, easy to use.
Of all the apps that kanotix comes with, this is the only one I can think of that really should be added to the install package, it's just too useful for too many users to be left out. Only decently expert users can deal with vi, I know I can't even remember the simplest commands when I open it, even though I've learned them a few times. Leave vi for expert users, and add nano for realworld users.
gtk2-engines-gtk-qt, I had massively huge problems with this, well known issues it turned out, with firefox, total crashes on desktop switching. If you have not installed this, don't. If you're lucky enough to have it work with firefox I'll assume you aren't using desktops very much, or that you're just plain lucky, or that the bugs have been fixed. I won't touch that product again for a long long time though.
lm-sensors, ksensors, nice to monitor hardware, fan control to handle cpu fan speed live.
Not all mobos support these.
Nice program, but with bugs, filelight, great app that lets you dig into your filesystem and find where those gigabytes have gone to in very well designed gui.
digikam wasn't in cebit, not sure about easter, that's a must have if it's not in, another kde killer app.
Too many other apps to remember. Filezilla alpha is nice but not ready for prime time.
Humboldt - 20.05.2006, 18:41 Uhr
Titel: This is mine setup
First thing I install is Guarddog and Clamav.
Then I UNINSTALL the following
amarok* amarok-arts* amarok-engines* amarok-gstreamer* amarok-xine*
libmusicbrainz4c2a* libtunepimp2c2a*
libtunepimp3* mozilla-thunderbird*
Then I INSTALL the following
mp3blaster cdcd abcde
msttcorefonts gtk2-engines-gtk-qt
dvipng lesstif2 libgd2-noxpm libkpathsea4 libt1-5
tetex-base tetex-bin tetex-doc
tetex-extra tex-common texinfo xpdf-reader
vim-latexsuite dvilx
And I also install the dvd..thing etc..not allowed to mention here...yeah...long live fredom of speach....
To me crap like amarok and other gui music playing etc stuff could be removed by default. mp3blaster rules...
Cheers
rich.bradshaw - 20.05.2006, 19:12 Uhr
Titel: This is mine setup
no! amaroK is the most amazing thing ever!
got any suggestions for where I can learn latex? I am doing a maths degree and think it would prob be very useful... equation editor in microsoft word doesn't really cut it...
Yeah, nano should def be included - Kano suggests using xedit (which is included) instead, but I still prefer nano. I don't really like using X if i'm working with the CLI.
Humboldt - 20.05.2006, 19:31 Uhr
Titel: LaTex
Hi!
Fot LaTex a start could be
http://www.latex-project.org/
Cheers
michael7 - 20.05.2006, 19:47 Uhr
Titel:
horo,
I too have packages from **censored**. (Tried to make a donation. He replied that he didn't take donations, that he was doing it for fun. If the quality of his work is an indication of how much fun he's having, then he's a very happy guy!)
vi, vim, nano all have their advocates. I like mcedit. It's a package I can't live without. As a Java programmer, I use gcj, the GNU Java compiler, with kdevelop. gcj is better than jdk in my opinion, because I can compile Java code into native machine language. Sure, it's not as portable, but there are times when you're building something for yourself and portability isn't an issue. So, my "must have" packages are:
mcedit
gcj
kdevelop
ice - 20.05.2006, 20:37 Uhr
Titel:
My approach is different. I started from a full Kanotix installation, got rid of all the stuff I don't need, and ended up with ca. 600 packages on 1.3GB of disk space, which includes:
- Opera
- Skype
- Koffice (no OpenOffice for me)
- Enemy Territory (gotta have it)
- The usual codecs
- Bunch of wireless tools
I also got rid of Java and installed qtorrent instead of Azureus (I know it's old, but I like the minimalistic interface and, since I only d/l Linux stuff, I don't need encryption or DHT).
h2 - 20.05.2006, 20:38 Uhr
Titel:
re nano, this is not a question of advocating or not. If you need a text editor and you can't boot into gui and you have still not connected to the internet so you can run apt, vi is not going to do 99% of any user out there any good at all, it's completley incomprehensible to new users, and older users like me, who would like to one day learn its ins and outs.
On the other hand, pretty much anyone can open, edit, and save a document in nano if so required to get something running. This is just user friendliness, useability, and so on, it has nothing to do with preferences, a new user would probably prefer, if stuck in console, non x, mode, to be able to do what he/she needs to do to fix the issues. vi will not help them achieve that, since first they'd have to dig up a tutorial to do anything at all with it. Not to say vi shouldn't be included, it should, for all the power users out there who know it and like it and can use it, but another one should also be included for the rest of the planet's users who have no clue at all what to do with a blank text editor interface.
If kanotix is going to have a gui installer, gui front ends for the update scripts etc, it escapes me what the logic is behind not having a useable console text editor.
Anyway, this is hard to get extreme linux power users to understand, but vi is just not a practical tool to use if you don't already know it, whereas nano can be used with basically no knowledge.
Anyway, hopefully kano will take some mercy on the non linux elite who use this great distro and include tiny little nano so we can all edit to our heart's content in console, livecd or not.
It doesn't have to be nano, could be any decently user friendly and intuitively laid out console editor, nano fits that though. I won't argue this point, since to me there is really no real reason to argue against giving users something they can actually use.
This isn't a criticism of vi, it's just noting that vi is just too hard to use for average users who need a quick fix edit in console.
ice - 20.05.2006, 20:40 Uhr
Titel:
Zitat:
- The usual **censored** codecs
What the...
Is this a joke?
devil - 20.05.2006, 20:45 Uhr
Titel:
h2,
mc is there already, mcedit should be userfriendly.
i looked at nano the first time today and could not do nothing, cause not even ^G would open help, as it should. i didnt look at it any further, cause i am ok with mc, but for a first timer in a console without x that would be a no go. maybe i just didnt take enough time or was just too stupid.
btw: fully agree on vi, would probably take a week to get into it halfway.
greetz
devil
nemesis - 20.05.2006, 21:11 Uhr
Titel:
I can live with mcedit...was easy to figure out once I knew about it. I still prefer nano, though. As long as you know the ^ = <ctrl> key you are good to go, same as if in mcedit you know the number = function key of that number.
rich.bradshaw - 20.05.2006, 21:43 Uhr
Titel:
nano is quite easy, ctrl-q is quit, ctrl-w is write etc, its all at the bottom... ^ is control. I don't use it for anything too heavy, but editing config files is very easy in it - especially if you are not in X. vi is a bit weird, but I can see that if you can use it it is good...
Kano - 20.05.2006, 21:50 Uhr
Titel:
I don't need to learn nano commands, these are from wordstar which also turbo pascal used. But i see no purpose to add 10 additional editors - everybody has his own editor. mcedit is the default editor of mc, which is installed (press f4 on a file). I know that most other distros do not preinstall mc, but as former DOS user it is essential...
hubi - 20.05.2006, 22:00 Uhr
Titel:
I support mc, it's essential help if you have to do something in the terminal, eg X is broken. On distributions without it (maybe it was Fedora) it was one of the first packages I installed.
hubi
h2 - 20.05.2006, 22:49 Uhr
Titel:
mcedit would be another example of a userfriendly console editor, I'd never seen that one, same idea though, list of commands on the bottom. Ok, I withdraw my nano inclusion request since mcedit fulfills the same role, it's immediately obvious how it works.
vi is cool, but to be honest, I've read tutorials, I've learned a few commands, but despite that, last week when I needed to edit something the very best I could do with it, having read that stuff in the past several times, was to remember that typing : then quit would get me out of it.
but that's neither here nor there, for those who can use it I'm sure it works very well.
Good to know about mcedit, I'd never even heard of that one, didn't realize it came with kanotix.
<heh heh, now I'm stuck in mcedit, can't get the number commands to work. I vote for nano with its always working ctrl + <letter> instead of mcedit, but that's a preference.
zmiles - 20.05.2006, 23:58 Uhr
Titel: CAn't live without
The programs I install immediately and would like included:
KMyMoney2
ClamAV, KlamAV
Gaim
Synaptic
OpenOffice
OpenOffice Quikstarter
Kanotix-Update-GUI
Humboldt - 21.05.2006, 00:07 Uhr
Titel: Editors
Hi!
I guess most Linux users have a favorit editor, and as long they are happy with it it is no much to discuss. But I think there is at least one very good reason to learn at least the basics of vi (or Vim), since Vi is the standrad editor in any Unix or Linux system. If you run into trouble in a Linux box which is not your own, or if you test a new dist, you can not rely on finding nano or emacs or any of the others by defaul.
Then, besides that, use whatever editor you like - but I really do not understand all this talk about Vi (or Vim) being so difficult and hard to learn. It is not intuitive, maybe, but wat is intuitive when it comes to edit config files or working in a shell anyway?? The confusing thing about Vim is the diffrent modes, but hey, it not THAT difficult to learns some basic stuff for basic editing. Then ofcourse there is a LOT to learn if you want to learn the details. But Hey, it is an anvanced editor, and advanced things normaly takes a little bit moore to learn.
Best Reagards
rich.bradshaw - 21.05.2006, 01:26 Uhr
Titel: Editors
Yeah, vi seems useful - and I agree, it's a standard.
As long as you know how to quit (:q) , save (:w), go in/out insert mode (i and esc) and the hjkl movement, you are probably ok for 90% of things...
Vi users - how often do you use the more advanced features, such as d3h or y10k and things like that?
Also, what does yank mean in context of vi?
michael7 - 21.05.2006, 03:04 Uhr
Titel: vi tutorial
Zitat:
As long as you know how to quit (:q) , save (:w), go in/out insert mode (i and esc) and the hjkl movement, you are probably ok for 90% of things...
rich,
You have just given us the basic tutorial for vi. Thanks.
h2 - 21.05.2006, 06:07 Uhr
Titel: RE: vi tutorial
yeah, I've learned those commands several times, but I can't remember them, they just don't stick in my head, I think because vi uses a logic that nothing else I use has, it's like its own world, that's my guess why it's so hard to get used to. Everything else I've used is pretty easy to understand.
My points re vi however were not to criticize it but just to point out that it's too obscure for most users out there. I've said to myself that I should learn it, but honestly I can't think of any reason to do that, I already know how to use a whole bunch of text editors, that's all I use for programming and coding, for years. To me it's something that really just seems to be obscure for the sake of being obscure, I mean, really, how hard is it to code in a list of common commands at the bottom of the screen? I know vi purists would say that you should learn it and not waste the screen space, but since that's not a philosophy any other product I use takes, it's not one I particularly agree with, it assumes that there is a real benefit to learning a different logic for every single program in existence, that's just not realistic as far as I'm concerned.
Anyway, I'm happy leaving vi to vi users, it's not a real issue to me, it's just an odd relic of unix from what I can see, from a time when there probably weren't very many programs or choices out there, but that's not the case today.
craigevil - 21.05.2006, 07:14 Uhr
Titel: RE: vi tutorial
Hmm one that no one has stated so far , how about apt-listbugs. Running unstable without it is just asking for trouble.
It is the first thing I install followed by Synaptic, Guidedog and Kanotix-update-gui .
devil - 21.05.2006, 07:45 Uhr
Titel: RE: vi tutorial
craig,
apt-listbugs will only puzzle new users. i used it for a while, but didnt find it very usefull.
i dont use it anymore and just dist-upgrade every day. the warnings we have on the news page are more usefull imho.
greetz
devil
Humboldt - 21.05.2006, 09:09 Uhr
Titel: Editors again and the Yank command in Vim
Hi again!
Yes, Vi (or Vim) can be tricky for a while untill you get used to it. I do not agree it is a relic however. Vi or Vim might be a little bit tricky, BUT when you have get used to it, you can work faster in Vim than in any other editor I have used. In fact - as long as I am not forced to use a word processor, I rather use Vim for any writing.
Nano is for sure an editor with enough capabilities for basic config editing or other basic editing needs, but compared to Vim (or Emacs) it DO miss a lot of the functions which can be handy when editing is getting advanced. And this is not an opinion but a fact. Then if the additional functions in Vim are needed in the specific case or for a specific personal need, that is another question. But for programing or "extended" system administration for example, in my opinion, forget about nano. Nano is a clone of pico, and pico was originally an editor for email purposes.
There is a new project, not mature yet, but planned to be ready for kde 4. The project is called Yzis, and its goal is to come up with a new Vi clone, very similar to Vim but not identical to Vim in every detail. Now, You could ask if the world really needs an new Vi clone, but the really new thing with Yzis, as I understand it, is that it will be possible to integrate it into KDE apps like Konquerror, Kdevelop, Quanta etc...and that will be great. (There is variant called Kvim allready, but it do not work very Well.)
bradshaw, since the power of Vim lies in its advanced functions, I use them a lot. It takes some time to learn, but when you have learnt them, you have a very powefull tool under your fingertips. However, my point in my previous above is: You don´t need to know a lot about Vim:s advanced functions to do some basic editing, and since Vim is the unix standard, I think it is a very good idea to learn the basic Vim commands.
About YANK:
Yank is more or less basically the same as copy and paste in a wordprocessor. Everything you delete with the commands d or dd OR copy with y (yank) or yy (yank lines) are copied into a register. If you do 5yy for example, you copy 5 lines. Or if you activate the visual mode and mark a word, and then do the Y (yank) you copy the marked word. You can also do for example 3y in normal mode, and then do for example a movement with the L key. This means you have copied the 3 letters from the corsor and to the right in the text. All these are called yank in Vim-language. Basically yank works in the same manner as d (delete) or dd (delet lines), but yank do not delete, just copy. Everything in the register can be copied back (or pasted) into a text with the commands p or P (put or Paste) p puts the text on the line after the promt, (capital) P just before the promt. I recommend some experimenting to figure out how yank work. It is not difficult.'
A simple y or yy copy the text into a nameless register. If you want to you can give names to registers. If you - in normal mode - do for example "x5yy, then you copy 5 lines into the register x. "xp then put the text from register x into the line after the cursor. (Observe, the command starts with the " sign. To avoid missunderstandings here, the "x5yy command in the example is NOT given at a : sign. You just leave insert mode with the Esc, and then type "x5yy in normal mode. Also observe you can not use captal letters for naming registers. You can have as many registers as the alfaphet allows.) Do you want to se what is in the register, then use the command :registers
hope this helps
regards
michael7 - 21.05.2006, 14:55 Uhr
Titel: mcedit information
You can find detailed information about mcedit (the internal file editor for the GNU Midnight Commander program) on the man page. Here's a link to the contents:
http://linuxcommand.org/man_pages/mcedit1.html
This site lists some of the more popular editors:
http://www.indiwiz.com/linux/browse.php/Apps/texted.php
It refers to mcedit as a "DOS Edit" clone. That's a fair assessment. I began my computer life on a DOS machine and that's one of the reasons I'm comfortable using mcedit. Another reason though is that mcedit is so easy to use. But there are other good editors. Whatever floats your boat...
h2 - 21.05.2006, 19:22 Uhr
Titel: RE: mcedit information
humbolt, LOL, I was going to say I'd be happy to see the outcome of a race in terms of speed between a competent vi user and a competent advanced text editor user, say KATE, or perhaps Editplus under wine, especially on multiple documents and multiple instances of the application, that would be interesting, but I doubt that vi would win to be honest. But it would be an interesting sight. Currently kate is missing only one significant feature, but it's a major one: multiple line search and replace. Keeping more stuff in front of you eyes means you can keep more of it there, more files, more tabs, whatever, without losing track. There's a limit to what you can keep in your head.
I will probably learn vi one of these days just to have some experience in it, there are some benefits, like being able to affectively edit stuff through ssh for example on another server.
I definitely would not claim the simple user friendly editors like nano or mcedit are equal to more advanced text editors, but normal users don't need those anyway, don't need the functionality. The most they'll do is add a line to apt/sources.list or something.
Humboldt - 21.05.2006, 19:57 Uhr
Titel: Re: RE: mcedit information
h2 hat folgendes geschrieben::
Currently kate is missing only one significant feature, but it's a major one: multiple line search and replace.
I definitely would not claim the simple user friendly editors like nano or mcedit are equal to more advanced text editors, but normal users don't need those anyway, don't need the functionality. The most they'll do is add a line to apt/sources.list or something.
Vim and some other editors can be used in console mode, i e without X. Kate needs X for what I know. So, if you need to do editing without being able to log into X, then you need something else than Kate.
I don´t know what a "normal" user is, but I think you are right...most users don´t need all the Vim stuff most of the time. And many users do never need it. Don´t issunderstand what I am trying to say. Use ANY editor you like, if it is perfect for you, then it is a perfect editor. I just meant, since Vi is standard, it is good to know the basics. And I also tried to say, that different editors can be more or less user friendly, but user friendliness is not everything. Diffrent editors can also do diffrent things, and some editors can do much moore than others. I realise you know this h2, I was just putting it forward as an general information or opinion. Can be nice to know for them who do´t know what differs between them, since learning an editor is kind of an investment.
best regards
h2 - 21.05.2006, 20:22 Uhr
Titel: RE: Re: RE: mcedit information
well put humbolt, and I know that one day, probably just through a process of osmosis, vi will be a familiar tool to me. I know the vim eye candy definitely caught my eye recently, very nicely done, that actually helps a lot in terms of motivating at least me to learn it a bit.
After having spent the last week on a windows networking job, among 'normal users', I can definitely tell you what a normal user is: when you say command line, or move away from anything familiar, etc, they go into full on panic mode. All brain activity ceases. All perception of what is in front of them on the screen vanishes.
Frantic cries for the familiar windows [or osx, or kde/gnome, same idea] software interface emerge from their puckered faces. Once everything is back to normal, and they have their things to click on, they are again happy. Those are the things they always click on, to send emails, connect to the web, create ms office documents, and so on. Sometimes you can trick them, like with firefox, openoffice.org, thunderbird, sometimes you can't, depends on the user.
But in all cases, the cli is far far beyond their abilities, and will always cause panic. In windows, the cli is often referred to as the 'registry', which is just a really weird way to do command line operations. I just learned about how it handles for example the creation of symbolic links, like 'my music' for example, or changing default file open paths in apps.
That's why I always admire on irc when a windows user comes along and has to dip into the cli and doesn't panic, handles it. That is not the norm. And kanotix is doing a good job of attracting those non normal users I'd say.
anyway, sorry to drift the thread off-topic, text editors are of course something I care about since I make most of my living with them. Sadly, linux still has no feature complete gui text editor, although it's getting closer, the kate team have on their todo list everything required to bring kate to the level of something like editplus.
A non-normal user, on the other hand, when confronted with the new or unexpected, says to themselves, hmmm, that's interesting, I wonder how to make that work the way I want it to. Then they google or otherwise research the stuff, go online to ask questions, read some forums postings, etc. Happily, people will pay for this service, LOL...
rich.bradshaw - 21.05.2006, 21:28 Uhr
Titel: Re: RE: Re: RE: mcedit information
h2 hat folgendes geschrieben::
Happily, people will pay for this service, LOL...
Lol, luckily! Good post btw 
anticapitalista - 22.05.2006, 14:42 Uhr
Titel:
I remove KDE stuff I don't use and install
fluxbox
aterm
conky
rox-filer
adesklets/yab
apt-listbugs
checkinstall
irssi
sylpheed-claws
glabels
xmms
abde
mpd
and the usual font/codecs stuff
jesseman - 22.05.2006, 16:54 Uhr
Titel:
birds of a feather, anticapitalista! I don't know how people use Konsole instead of aterm, or live without conky!
anticapitalista - 22.05.2006, 17:57 Uhr
Titel:
me too jesseman!
Though conky has been playing up on kanotix 2005-04, xorg7. The i2c temp ditectory keeps changing. Sometimes it's i2c 1-004c and other times it's i2c 0-004c.
Cathbard - 22.05.2006, 20:06 Uhr
Titel:
I'm a nano man myself. I have never gotten around to learning VI and nano has all the commands listed down the bottom so I don't have to remember all the old wordstar commands (which I've mostly forgotten). I don't know how many times it's got me out of trouble when I had no X but it's a lot.
The other thing I use a lot that's not in Kanotix is Teamspeak but that's not something I expect in any distro out of the box.
2radical - 23.05.2006, 00:40 Uhr
Titel:
I apt installed conky & ran update-menus, but it didn't appear anywhere on the K menu, so I tried to run it from konsole:
root@WorldsEnd:/home/joyboy# conky
Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server
Xlib: Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key
Conky: can't open display: :0.0
What do I need to do? Download some keyring?
spacepenguin - 23.05.2006, 02:12 Uhr
Titel:
Well, first things I install on a Kanotix box are:
anacron
csh
localeconf (for posix sorting of files - german sorting is a pain!)
kjots (no way to live without it anymore )
kdelibs4-dev (which also means forced removing of gamin and installing libfam - I really would appreciate a kanotix gamin version which is able to coexist with the kde header files!)
kdf
fortune
picwiz
guarddog
guidedog
apt-listbugs
rkhunter
hal-device-manager
synaptic (the one and only)
pwmanager
ksteak, kding or qleo
kickpim (just because of the birthday reminder)
tellico
ufraw (and gimp plugin)
additional gimp files
kshisen
kpat
msttcorefonts
kde-icons-nouvext
After that I remove pmount and replace it with a version with non-capslocked camera file names (I really don't get it why win-bugs have to be mimicked).
And then I do add $HOME/bin to my PATH (would be nice if it would be the default).
Other favorite apps:
gimp
konqueror
kmail
yakuake
amaroK
xmms
kword
kspread
kpdf
vim
kedit
kwrite (for websites)
gwenview (more options), kuickshow (faster)
superkaramba with liquid weather
tusk/chromium
blob wars
frozen-bubble
ksnapshot
xmcd
kdcop
anticapitalista - 23.05.2006, 08:50 Uhr
Titel:
2radical hat folgendes geschrieben::
I apt installed conky & ran update-menus, but it didn't appear anywhere on the K menu, so I tried to run it from konsole:
root@WorldsEnd:/home/joyboy# conky
Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server
Xlib: Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key
Conky: can't open display: :0.0
What do I need to do? Download some keyring?
Don't run it as root, 2radical.
Humboldt - 23.05.2006, 10:04 Uhr
Titel: Yakuake
Yakuake was mentioned above. Yakuake is one of those simple but amazingly smart programs that, as soon you get used to have it around, you wonder how you managed without it for so many years without missing it.
cheers
Gowator - 23.05.2006, 10:50 Uhr
Titel:
h2 hat folgendes geschrieben::
This isn't a criticism of vi, it's just noting that vi is just too hard to use for average users who need a quick fix edit in console.
The thing is vi is a dep of loads of packages, its just a *nix taken to be installed.
I honestly don't notice using it anymore but I remember it being a bit frightening ... but actually removing it would be hard I guess.
As someone said its something I rely on to be installed when helping other people...
2radical - 23.05.2006, 13:47 Uhr
Titel:
Zitat:
Don't run it as root, 2radical.
I'm not usually in the habit of doing that.
beavis - 23.05.2006, 14:25 Uhr
Titel: Re: Yakuake
Humboldt hat folgendes geschrieben::
Yakuake was mentioned above. Yakuake is one of those simple but amazingly smart programs that, as soon you get used to have it around, you wonder how you managed without it for so many years without missing it.
cheers
Yes, I love yakuake! I just can't save a yakuake session with several open tabs. Is it possible?
beavis - 23.05.2006, 14:30 Uhr
Titel: Re: RE: vi tutorial
devil28 hat folgendes geschrieben::
craig,
apt-listbugs will only puzzle new users. i used it for a while, but didnt find it very usefull.
Just use apt-listchanges, it's really nice to see the changes, not the fixed bugs 
anticapitalista - 23.05.2006, 14:31 Uhr
Titel:
2radical hat folgendes geschrieben::
Zitat:
Don't run it as root, 2radical.
I'm not usually in the habit of doing that.
So is it running ok?
I've seen it work in KDE, but some have had problems.
Cathbard - 24.05.2006, 10:45 Uhr
Titel:
You've sold me on Yakuake. what a pearler!! 
Humboldt - 26.05.2006, 21:27 Uhr
Titel: About KDE
This could be of some intrest...
http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/05/18/1546209
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